S1 Ep2 Analyst, Expert, or Tarot Reader? Who To Trust When Picking Stocks

In today's episode we talk about what makes an expert and, you know, how to differentiate expertise from, say, mansplaining. Who should we believe?  Who should we trust when we're trying to figure out how to invest? Because, really, at the end of the day, is there a difference between investing in the stock market based on the so-called "experts" or from fortune tellers? Should we just pull a few tarot cards to get some guidance on how to invest? We put it to a (very unscientific) test. 

Transcript

Women Take Stock
Season 1, Episode 2
Analyst, Expert, Or Tarot Reader? Who To Trust When Picking Stocks

JJ:  Investing, it's a feminist act. Because it's such a world dominated by men and full of jargon and insular in a way.

So yeah, I feel like I'm doing something for the sisterhood as well as for myself. 

Jen:  Hey everybody. Welcome to Women Take Stock today, we're going to talk about what makes an expert and how to differentiate expertise from say mansplaining. Who should we believe? Who should we trust when we're trying to figure out how to invest? 

I mean, really at the end of the day, is there a difference between investing in the stock market and fortune telling? Couldn't I just say pull a few tarot cards to get some guidance on how to invest?

Dana: Wait, wait, didn't you do that the other day?

Jen:  Yeah. I was just sort of teasing it out because later in the show, I'm going to let you know how my stock picks that were guided by tarot readings performed against actual experts. Yes, I did that. I bought stock based on what the tarot said, and then the [00:01:00] magic eight ball, and then a flip of a coin. Stay tuned.

Dana: Ooh. Nice. 

Jen: And now, we're going to start our show. Somebody tell us who we are.

Tula: We are four friends, all at different places in our financial and personal lives. Looking to pull back the curtain on the seemingly mysterious often testosterone-driven world of stock investing.

Jen: And if for women, without business degrees, can figure out the market as a side hustle, so can you.

JJ: So join us as we learn the basics, buy, sell, scratch our heads, hold our breath, exhale, commiserate, and celebrate. Hopefully more of the latter.

Dana: Maybe we can even make a little over a lot of money doing it. And if money is power, we definitely want some of that too.

Tula: The WTS podcast and related products are created for general information purposes . Only visitors should not act upon this content without first seeking appropriate advice from a financial planner or a tax attorney or some other relevant professional. Any advice that might resemble a real tip is purely coincidental.

Jen: We gave ourselves tasks last week and we want to revisit how we did with those tasks this week. But before we go there, quick recap, because if you're listening to the show for the first time, or you don't remember who the hell each of us are, I want to go around a little bit and introduce ourselves.  JJ, why don't you start?

JJ: Great. Sure.  I'm a writer, journalist and social media consultant. I'm originally from Texas. I lived in London for more years than I can count and split my time between the UK and the US. I'm also divorced with a teenage daughter and that's affected my finances. I want to put my ability to research and analyze information to work in a way that helps me take control and earns me some income.

Jen: Great. And I'm a native new Yorker, but I've been living in DC for longer than I can count. I'm a writer and a filmmaker. I'm married with two kids, a dog, a cat, a picket fence. No kidding. But since COVID, my income has been shot to sheep, shall I say? And I'm looking for new ways to reimagine my own finances. Dana?

Dana: I live in New York City. I'm single and a parent who has a preteen. I've been working as a consultant for the past 10 years, and I've been investing in the stock market since February. And it's been an education.

And Tula? How about you? 

Tula: Well, let me tell you about me. I consider myself a New Yorker at heart because I was there for 19 years and ironically, I moved back to my home state state of Texas about five years ago to not only be closer to my parents and my family, but to get out of credit card debt. Well, lo and behold, I went into credit card debt.

And I'm single. And so I don't have  somebody else that I share health insurance with, or that I share bills with. Like, it's just me. I'm on path to get out of debt, but I don't want to wait until I have zero debt to participate in the stock market.

Even if it's just a little bit of money, I want to be able to take control of my finances in a number of ways, that being one of them. I'm a total novice, a total beginner, and I want to be Dana. 

Jen: You know people aren't gonna want this whole rundown of who we are every week. It's fine for now, but sooner or later they're going to get bored. What we need to do, Tilly. You're so good at coming up with little songs and stuff for your, your niece and nephew that I think you should, I think it should be like, like a Gilligan's Island, like JJ there, whatever she does.

Tula: That would be cute. The British, the movies. 

Jen: Dana, the movie star. 

Tula: Or who's going to be that ed Marianne, they just throw in the other two at the end engine to two

Dana: I Marianne.

Dana: I can relate to all of them though. I sometimes feel like I'm Gilligan. And sometimes I feel like a Maryanne. I really don't often feel like I'm ginger, I could pretend that

Tula: Yeah. That's fun.

Dana: But, maybe now I'll channel being the professor and have goals to be. Thurston halibut. How are all these names coming back to me all of a sudden?  So I am not there some hell the third, but I was born in Ohio. I'm technically a Midwestern girl and moved progressively East because of my dad's work, and went to school in New York and moved to the city. basically Pretty much was  in depth. The minute I walked into the city, because my first job I was making like $18,500 a year, which is crazy. And I remember filling out these forms where it said, how much, what percentage of your salary do you want to put aside for retirement? I was like, screw that.

Tula: I'm never gonna be that old… 

Dana: I don't have enough money to put anything aside.

Tula: I don’t need to retire...

Dana: I know, I don't need to start now. and I held onto that mindset. Really? My. Embarrassingly  much of my adult life. Everything's been like month to month, not a lot of forward planning, but as anyone who has children knows, you do need to think in advance, when you have a kid, you start thinking about this annual calendar, you start thinking about it in four year chunks. 

Dana: You're thinking about middle school and high school and college. And that actually helped me get my head around thinking about the future, which was really helpful. And I think it is also helpful for my child. So we have a...

Jen: What stability, what?

Dana: I know.  This year when I turned 50, I'd already been thinking about it, but I was finally prepared to do something about my financial security, and just really be an active participant in that and stop thinking, Oh, sorry. I'm going to hire somebody else to do that. 

Jen: it's funny. I had his guy said to me recently, you're the protagonist of your own life and it blew my mind. I was like, wait,  what I am like, yeah, I am.

Dana: I can 100 percent can relate to that. Absolutely. And I don't, I don't want to go so far as to say I'm like a victim, I can I've made myself a little bit of a victim in my life and I give myself this out of, Oh, that's just who I am, or I don't have enough money to do that.

Or I'm only one person income household, but no excuses anymore. So moving forward, I decided that I [00:07:00] could lose a hundred dollars in Robinhood and bought a few stocks. And just from there, my kind of a planning nature, my organizing nature, my researching nature kicked in and fast forward to today, I'm up a few.

Jen: You're the professor.

Dana: Okay. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly.

JJ: So Dana, were you going to say you're up? You're up today?

Dana: Since February, I'm up several thousand dollars, which proves my theory and really it has motivated me to continue learning and making investments. 

Jen: Dana you've inspired me because that idea, just like I said, like being a protagonist of your own life and being able to actually take control of something, especially in this time of COVID, when it feels like we have no control over anything, it is quite appealing. It's scary.

And the past few weeks while we've been learning a little bit about investing, it's become a little, it's become exciting and hopeful.

And it's actually funny. Cause it's the first time I think in this whole period that I've felt hopeful. Even though when I look at my stocks, I'm not doing too well this week, but I guess nobody is. So there's that, last week we talked about all of us wanting to have a little task for the week.

How are we going to move forward with our understanding of what we are actually doing with our money? I think I told you guys, I had invested in a couple of areas that were of interest to me in particular. I was interested in, marijuana, adjacent stocks and things that have to do with renewable energy.

I, but I didn't, I was just willingly grabbing some stocks that seemed to have a buy recommendation, but not really understanding anything about the industries or the companies. And all I can say is that. The only thing I did, which actually made me feel better was I did a little research about marijuana investing in marijuana and it turns out all these articles I read said, there's huge room for growth to deal in this industry, that it's not anywhere near as big as it could possibly become. I guess some of this depends on politics and legality, but it made me feel hopeful Oh wait, maybe I just by my gut instinct was onto something who knows. 

So I'm curious, like you guys were going to look into some stuff as well this week. What have you learned in your world?

Tula: I'll start. I had a lot to learn cause I was starting from zero and my goal was to research a sector and then purchase even just one share of stock, which I did. so I took the plunge and...

Jen: Maybe before you tell us, can we guess, can we guess the sector?

Tula: I did talk last week about which sector I was going to. Invest in, but you can guess again. Yeah, sure. 

Jen: That's true. You did. So it's not like a big guess, but which company in that sector, like, did you do Netflix? Did you do Disney? Did you do HBO?

Tula: I did bite the bullet on one of them, let's see if anybody can guess.

Jen: I'm going with Netflix.

Tula: Oh, Nope.

Jen: What'd you say Dana?

Oh, I said Peloton. I was thinking exercise because Tula is a soul cycle addict.

Tula: Oh, Nope. I am a spin person. Yeah, that's actually good. I'm gonna do that next week. So I'll tell you what, so first of all,  I researched the streaming video services and I bought one share of Apple because of Apple TV, I'm that girl that has like hardly any shoes in her closet, but she has a pair of Manolo Blahniks and that's what I consider my little Apple stock to be, Reasoning is that it did go down over the past couple of months.

And so I thought, I can afford it. It was $116 for one share. And, I know because I've been using Apple products my entire life, that they're an amazing company. And I know that'll go back up at some point.

Jen: Oh my God. Apple TV has some really good shows

Tula: I also bought two shares of H T T, because they are trying to get into the streaming game.

Their stock went down a little bit over the last couple of months as well. So I figured, okay, let me purchase it now wants a little lower. And then they announced a partnership with HBO max, which I'm hoping eventually that will pan out. 

Dana: If I were your teacher. I'd give you a gold star for sure. knowledge is power. it's great that you've done this research. I think it's really [00:11:00] insightful that you are looking at things that. Are close to your heart or that you believe in and exploring options that way. 

because you understand those industries better than if you went and invested in some oil stock or something like that 

Jen: JJ, how was your week?

JJ: Yes.  my goal for this past week was to dig in a bit more with some of the. The lingo. And so I understood it more. But basically, I'm focusing on certain issues,  like PE ratios and that kind of thing. And I'm looking at those over and over, across different companies I'm interested in And 

Jen: What’s the PE ratio? 

JJ: Price to earnings ratio? 

Jen: Means what? 

Dana: The the  price of the stock compared to the company earnings and the, not the resulting number then in not only knowing what the definition is, but knowing what's the number that you want to hit, when you have that price to earnings ratio, what indicates that so valuable stock or not a very good stock.

JJ: So I'm still, yeah, I'm still learning all that, and I learned the difference between a market and a limit order this week. I did purchase some stock, with limit orders. 

Jen: Wait, I’m sorry, back up.

Dana: Can I define what a limit and a market order is? 

Jen: Yeah.

Dana: So a market order is when you basically buy a stock for whatever it is, selling it at that particular instant that you press return. When you're purchasing a stock, so it's whatever the price is. And it could look like it's, two 60 a share that then you end up buying it for like two 65 because the, the market fluctuated in that instant.

But if you do a limit order, you basically specify exactly how much you want to spend on that purchase. So if you want to spend $260 for the stock, that's saying  on your screen, that it's $260, you can kind of program that in. 

Tula: So JJ, which one did you do? The market or the limit? 

JJ: Oh, I did limit, I did live.

Dana: You specified how much you wanted to spend on a certain number of shares of which stock.

JJ:  Okay. So I bought two stocks this week which promptly went down after I bought it because of course. But that was electronic arts, the gaming company. What you did... 

Jen: My son begged me to buy one share of that company this week and I did.And it went down

JJ: Yes. We're in the same boat. Yeah. Long term because of the amount of cash it has. And because of its stable of games, it's actually a really good long-term hold. Definitely. so I feel pretty confident about that. It's just a bit demoralizing when it's like, Oh, But then the other thing was I bought pins, Pinterest, and I have been talking about that since July. I wish I had bought it in July because…

Dana: Don't do that. 

(overtalk)

Jen:  Like New York real estate, like why didn't I buy a loft in Soho in the eighties?

(overtalk)

Dana: JJ, what was it at? What could you have made? 

JJ: It doubled.

Jen: To that point, talking about like we're swimming in these waters that we don't really, um, know very well or another bad metaphor is that we can't see the forest through the trees and we're looking for guidance.

And so we said, we were going to talk about experts and how do you know who to listen to and what advice to get, to follow? Right now we're following our own advice, which is not necessarily a bad thing. Maybe it's a good thing. Maybe that's what we should be  doing, but there are all these people who are paid crazy amounts of money to tell us what to buy.

And, it's interesting though, because if you peel that back. I found a couple of studies. Some of them are a little old, but they like, here's a 2012 study of more than 11,000 analysts from 41 countries, so that the overall accuracy of their target prices. And I'm not sure what target prices are.

I think that probably means what they expected companies to do, but their overall accuracy averaged about 18%, three month horizon and 30% [00:15:00] for 12, it's like terrible. 

Dana: Who doesn't feel like they can do a lot better than that on their own. 

Jen:  right. And  I have to tell you guys what I did this week.

Cause I was trying to figure out, okay, do I listen to Motley Fool? Do I listen to MyWallStreet.com? Who do I follow? And then we were saying, it's like gambling, which kind of got me to like, well, maybe a tarot deck could have given me some guidance.

 And so I gave myself this little test. I thought, why don't I buy one stock that's way recommended and then use the tarot to help figure out what other stock to buy. Now, I wasn't a total idiot, just pulling something out of the ether. I actually chose five stocks that were recommended, but then winnowed it down between tarot, magic eight ball, and a coin flip to settle it.

Dana: I love the magic eight ball.

(overtalk)

Jen: I haven't actually looked yet to see what my tarot, magic eight ball, coin flip lift. 

Tula: You haven’t looked yet?

Jen: I was waiting to look with you guys. 

(overtalk)

Okay, here we go. Let me just tell you like, okay. I looked at, the one that I bought that was the hundred percent by recommendation from Robinhood was, oh my God. What the heck is it called? It's like intergalactic, Virgin Galactic. And it was a hundred percent by recommendation.

Dana: I just want to know who is saying, you know, you look at the thing on Robinhood and it says a hundred percent by, based on X number of ratings. Sometimes it's a hundred percent buy based on like six ratings really, and who they are and you can't click on it to see who's rating it. 

Jen: So whoever recommended it or rated it, let me just tell you a Virgin Galactic Holding this week. Very red. Down 7.4, some 0.3, 8% down today. Over the week since I bought it, let's see. Since I bought it has gone down 16.5, 7%. So that's the one I went with, the recommendation, the one that the tarot deck told me, so I had four that the tarot said yes to. So I can't buy four. So then I went to the magic eight ball, winnowed it down, winnowed it down. And then I was left with Veeva and Zoom. And so then I did a coin flip.

And so all of this came out that Veeva, I don't even know what that is. 

JJ: Oh, yeah. When I bought it, you know what it is? Yes. Because I'm in, I'm a part of a family investment club and, yeah, we bought it a while back. We're up 60% on it. Nice.

Jen:  Yeah, because I'll tell ya. I lost a little on Viva this week, but not nearly as much as I lost 1% by recommendation.

Oh my God. That's great. 16% something on, uh, the Virgin galactic Viva's down 4.6%. 

JJ: People will be great long-term though, because it's medical, it's like  tech, medical tech kind of thing…

(overtalk)

Jen: ...based software solutions for the life sciences industry enables pharmaceutical or other life sciences companies to realize the benefits of modern cloud based architecture.

I don't even know all that. 

Dana: Can we circle this all back? To the idea of experts, right? Who is giving a hundred percent buy rating? What are they basing that on? Is it how much they think the stock is going to increase or decrease in a week's time in three months time? The way that information can be presented to you from a quote unquote and I'm doing major air quotes here, expert is extremely subjective and it really is.

The onus is on each of us as the investor to do our due diligence and make sure we understand. And just because there's a big red dot that says a hundred percent by, or rather the green dot, what does that mean? Exactly, and it's really easy to get sucked in to this kind of communication, 

Tula: It also plays into this bigger idea right now of where with social media, we have so many sources of information coming at us and websites popping up all over the place, the experts. I think you have to really do your due diligence, in terms of where are you getting your information in this time of fake news.

There's certain outlets that I trust because I know that they adhere to time honored reporting standards. You know, everybody has a bias. But they start out with, with fact-based information, places like the Wall Street Journal and US News and World Report and Bloomberg.

I mean, they're not always right, because we're talking about the stock market, And I agree with you, Dana, you have to trust yourself and do your own research. And also, what am I interested in?

What is happening in my life? 

Dana: You have to be your own expert, right? You would never just go buy a house because someone says, Oh, that's a really good house to buy. That's a hundred percent buy house. Think about that. Think about how absurd that sounds. So then why the heck would you just put your money into something that you're looking at online that says a hundred percent by ?

JJ: And I think too, you touched on this too loud, there are new sources you can trust their news sources, you can't trust. And let's keep in mind. 

There've been a lot of scandals over the years of people putting information out there that's not right.

So they can benefit.

Dana: And so we like how Donald Trump will talk about Kodak out of the blue randomly and it shoots up like, 8000% in a day. Yeah. Some of us benefit from that 

Jen: Had he not done that we wouldn't be doing this podcast because it started right.

Dana: But it depends how you think about it too. It's, I listened to that, but I think there was, and we can talk about this another time, how do you process all that information coming into, and not lose your shirt basically and protect yourself and take advantage of opportunities versus get sold. Get, what's the word? Get, (overtalk), you basically get fucked over.

Fucked over, you get fleeced.

JJ: Yeah, when we think about who are the experts, we should also keep in mind that there are plenty of people who through the use jargon or just a simple attitude of oh, you don't know what you're doing, and set themselves up as experts and where the non-experts.

Jen:  What I love in our little world here is that there's Dana, who's only been doing this really since February is our expert.

And she's actually doing better than the actual experts, like the gear returns right now last week. I don't know if they're still at 30%, but you were doing well, and so you are my expert.

Dana:  I actually got like 60% returns a couple of months ago. Which was pretty exciting. But now I'm at...yeah..I got a little I'm aggressive with some of my investing, but yeah, I'm still at about 36% returns. 

Jen: Oh my God. Dana! That's crazy. How do you do that? I mean, clearly you're doing something that so many of these so-called experts aren't able to do. So what's your secret sauce? Who do you turn to for advice and expertise?

Dana: So I think my secret sauce is that I decided to start at square one. I went back to basics. I bought about 10 different books that, professed to be about trading the basis of trading stock investments, 101. And I actually did buy the idiot's guide to stock market investing. And, just had these sort of still complete.

Tom's that I could tear into and nobody was trying to sell me anything in these books. So I was able to get my bearings there and then feel like, okay, I have this reference library. And now I sort of have the guts to go out and start investigating stocks and tap into online platforms And then I started looking at the news to see what was happening and really how are all of these things interplaying? And there's a lot of conversation out there about. you know, like FOMO, which is like fear of missing out and a lot of other terminology and phraseology around just the idea of being influenced by other people. The idea of like that group mentality.

Jen:  To me, this all sounds very daunting. Like, oh my God, 10 books, I'm going to read 10 books? I'm going to sit down, I'm going to study this. I'm going to go back to school...

Dana: I didn’t read all of them...

Jen:  You know what? So let's say I'm like, I don't really want to do that. I mean, if somebody says I don't have the stomach to do that, I don't want to do that.

I'm too lazy to do that is the answer well then maybe you should have somebody else managing your money or is there a medium ground here where we can just sort of do whatever Dana does, but whatever stocks you buy? 

Dana: Well, honestly, you can't not want to do the work. It's basically like having a job or it's like doing a chore, if you're only going to do it halfway, then don't do it at all because the end result is not going to be what you want it to be.

So don't, don't waste your time doing it. And I believe that for everything and I believe you have to be. Yeah. If you want to give your money to someone else and have them manage it, you can do that, but you're really giving away power and control and you're giving away the benefit of learning about what you're endeavoring into.

And I think part of that for me is really exciting. And there's a payoff because I feel responsible for the gains and losses that, add up, in my portfolio.

Jen:  I tell like our answer, uh, you know, at the top of the podcast, For like how to be an expert. It's not as pat and maybe instantaneously satisfying as all that, but at the end of the day, not that different from the investing as a feminist issue, the idea that you take the power, you take the control, you manage it yourself.

And if you do it right, and you do it smart, you're more likely to do well. Is that right? Is that what you're saying?

Dana: I think also, you know, learning from, the idea that when you go to school, you're going there to learn, right? Maybe all of your teachers aren't like the best teachers are the most knowledgeable teachers, but you know, some of them really know what they're talking about and some of them are really invested and I think similar to trading or learning anything, you find those people that speak to you.

They have proven results and your knowledge is forwarded by your interactions with them and what you take away from them. So it's kind of a matter of finding those and ultimately that makes. You the expert, you know, the answer is that you have to be the expert.

Jen:  Okay. This is all well and good, but it's a lot to take in. So just to start, I would love something a little bit more concrete. It certainly, as a newbie, what do l even put in my Google search bar? What are some places you can send me to just to get my feet wet?

Dana: Yes. First of all, I would get the Robinhood daily newsletter. It's called Robinhood Snaps. It's a little pithy and quirky, but it's actually kind of funny, it's a quick read and that gives you like a quick digestible. take on the past day and what's ahead.

You can look at the websites MarketWatch, Yahoo, finance, Motley, Fool, any, and all books about finance and investing. The Idiot's Guides books are great. 

Jen:  You know what? It'd be great. So we now have a website. www.womentakestock.com. It'd be great if we could post a couple of these suggestions because nobody's sitting here listening to a podcast and writing things down, and maybe you could give us a few more just to get going.

That would be great. But to be clear, we're not saying these people are quote unquote experts, or you're not saying that what you're saying is it's a good place to start, but the expert at the end of the day has to be you.

Dana: Exactly. I think that these people are our tour guides, but you're, you're really running the show.  

 Jen:  And in the interest of starting like a kid and building it up, I believe that Tula has prepared our quiz of the week. Okay. So Tula, you thought up a question to ask us, what is it? 

Tula: Okay. So this was a question that arose when JJ mentioned these terms, just offhand and I had to look them up. So what is the difference between a short position and a long position? Okay. You have three options, right?

A short position is about playing the short game, like a quick turnaround. And the long position is about playing the long game. Like holding a stock for a long time. That's Option A. Option B, a long position is buying stocks with the expectation that it will go up versus the short sales, which one expects will go down or see a short position is not really knowing what you're doing because you're too short to see what's in front of you versus a long position, which means you can see what's coming up ahead.

Okay. What do you guys think it is? I know JJ.

No. Okay, Dana, what do you think it is? You probably know. And JJ, 

JJ: Yeah, B.  

 Tula: B it's B. It is about buying a stock with the expectation that it will go up and short sales, I guess a lot of day traders deal with short sales as well, but that's not what we're doing folks. We're in it for the ,we're doing long.

Jen: Maybe. Maybe we are, maybe we aren’t. It’s a good tangent to go off on, like, what is your psychology? Who are you psychologically speaking and given your own psychological makeup, how should you be investing?

Dana: Is this what we're going to discuss in our next episode? 

Jen: we should discuss this. What are you saying?

Tula: I would love to. I do think that also understanding your own psychology and the psychology of training helps you make better choices. I mean, at the end of the day, we're all here to make some money. Right. So I think we should talk about how you can maybe manipulate your own psychology a little bit, or at least work with it in a way that will help you profit.

JJ: Also making sure that you can control your anxiety. it was totally getting me down that this one share had gone down, but then I thought, you know, I'm not selling it tomorrow. But you do need to be aware of how you feel inside and your anxiety. And if you can manage your anxiety...

Dana: That's so smart. You actually should go into trading like you would, anything else make a plan and stick with it. You have to have an exit plan as well, in case you start to see stocks completely tanking or I don't know, maybe you're a risk taker who can hold on to stocks until they almost bottom out. How does your psychology match with what your plan is and how does your plan match with what your psychology is as well as how much money you have to invest? 

Tula: To your point, Dana, having a plan, knowing when you're going to bail...

Jen: I think that's a great idea. We're going to bail on this show right now because it's time to get going, but we're going to come back next week and we're going to talk about this. I think that probably if we do a little digging, we're going to find some pretty interesting things out there about the psychology of trading. Dana, I believe you set up some pretty interesting properties for us.

If you want to tell us about how people might be able to get in touch, if they have any questions or thoughts, comments. 

Dana: If you'd like to learn more about us and what we do and who we are, or just get in touch with us, you can go to a womentakestock.com or you can check us out on our Instagram feed Women Take Stock, or you can get in touch with us on Twitter at @womentakestock. 

All: Yay. 

Jen: See you all next week. We need a groovy tagline. Oh, wait, isn't it change that shit?

Dana: Alright ladies. Change that shit. I'd be like, change that shit. Okay. Bye. 

Jen: Thanks everybody. And we're out.